Question
QUESTION: Hi LIG:

I've written you before and now we have a chain of "replies" which can get confusing, so I will name the replies.

Let me jog your memory:  I originally sent you a question about thatch.  You replied with several questions (such as "where do you live?" plus information on thatch.  I'll call this your "Where are You" reply.  I replied with a message referring to aerating four times a year.  I'll call it my "Four Times" Reply.  You sent a reply to that which I'll call your "No Way Reply."  I then sent a reply which I'll call my "Two Times plus Nick Christians" reply, where I spoke of my communication with Nick Christians (IA Corn Gluten researcher).

I just received a ALLExperts reply (I'll call it  "Mystery Reply") that was a duplicate of your "No Way Reply") and it appeared that you had not seen my "Two Times and Nick Christians" reply.  So, let me summarize that "Two Times and Nick Christians" reply....(though I hope you have it because I wrote in more detail and also asked a few follow up questions.)  

Here is a summary of my "Two Times and Nick Christians" reply:

I reread the advice I'd gotten on-line on aerating and realized it said "twice a year" with four passes with aerator each time (not "four times a year").  I then wrote about having contacted Nick Christians at IA State to see if IA St U had new research that altered their corn gluten findings.  N.Christians suggested I write Professor Rossi at Cornell and ask about his research (which apparently conflicted with Christians research, determining that corn gluten only "squeezed out weeds by fertilizing."  I wrote Dr. Rossi and asked about his research that and he has never responded.)  In my "Two Times and Nick Christians" reply I then asked you some followup questions about the value of putting down corn gluten now and about the timing of aerating and corn gluten for annual blue grass in late summer and fall.  Do you remember getting this "Two Times and Nick Christian" question?

As I said, I just received an ALLExperts reply (I will call it the "mystery reply") that seemed to be to my "Four Times" reply" but didn't say anything about my "Two Times and Nick Christian" reply.  It appeared that something had gotten lost in the email chain of replies.

I replied to that "Mystery Reply", saying much the same as I've written here.  It occurred to me that maybe this was a better way, if that "Mystery Reply" was somehow in error.

I hope you have my "Two Times and Nick Christian" reply and will find time to write back to me.

Thanks

Rick

ANSWER: Good to hear from you, Rick.  I started to reply very late last night, and I was on the site, but I was not done.  I was doing a little research based on what I read and getting nowhere.  Figured it was fatigue, not lack of evidence, and decided to save it for another day and more sleep.  But I didn't send it.  I do see however that many of the longer conversations are somehow corrupted at some point; sentences are cut short, paragraphs disappear, sometimes half of the message is gone, sometimes it's just words that turn into meaningless gibberish or symbols.

I write way too long answers on this website but that's how I work.  I talk too much too!

I wonder if there is some rivalry going on b/t the Christians people at Iowa and the Rossi people at Cornell.  One of them suggests the other's work is suspicious, the other comes right out and says try it you'll like it.  I read the Iowa reports and the followup reports from the 1990s, as well as the US P&T Office, and they looked legit to me.  Subsequent research involved isolating the exact biochemical mechanism that shut down seed germination.  Rossi meanwhile has his herbicide research going on and appears to be looking for a product that will kill Weeds based on Borax.  I have not found any research that brings into questions whether CMG works or not.  But I'm looking.  There's more to this, I'm sure.  But exactly what, I don't know.

I do appreciate your effort to look into these.  It was Rossi who did not reply, correct?  Remember, these guys do a lot of work, and are not always available.  Especially now!  Summer Grass season and school is out.

A whole bunch of companies are paying for the privilege of using this patented product.  I'm sure they would be pretty darned upset if they suddenly discovered it was a fraud.  Stranger things have happened.  So far I would like to see the Iowa researchers defend their work.

I wonder if perhaps your question was routed to another 'expert'?  Or pooled by accident?  Or posted by accident?

Hard, isn't it, to get information on Nick Christians? I keep getting a lot of ecumenical ecclesiastical stuff.  Thanks for writing.  I'll let you know when I have something good to report!

And by the way, we have a new AllExpert listed, I wonder what he has to say about all this?  His name is Tom.  He looks like he knows what he's doing.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: When I wrote to N.C. he replied right away.  I had noticed that his research was done in the 1990s and that Cornell had somewhere a posting from the early 2000s saying that they didn't find evidence that the Corn gluten had prevented germination so much as caused growth that squeezed out the weeds.  So I thought maybe NC had done follow-up research, or maybe he had some reaction to the Cornell research.  He replied right away but didn't really rebut the Cornell finding....just directed me to Rossi.  He ended by saying the "try a bit".  I thought at first that maybe Rossi had done more recent research confirming NC.  But when Rossi did not reply I poked around in his resume.  I found a paper he'd done around the time of the Cornell "anti gluten" posting, so I figured that Rossi and NC were in opposite camps.  Obviously Rossi is doing a lot of work with golf courses.  I understand that....but I'll bet the total acreage of home yards far surpasses that of golf courses...and with it the use of pesticides and herbicides.   Moreover, I'll bet the average homeowner is much less careful with use.  My neighbor is an example.  I saw him putting down Scott's fertilizer with broadleaf weed killer "in the rain."  I asked him why he was doing that.  He said, "the bag said the leaves should be wet."  So, not only was he putting it down....it was doing absolutely nothing but polluting.

Back to the idea of "testing a patch" with corn gluten.  Is this a good time of year to put down corn gluten (even just as a fertilizer).  And if I put it down now, can I do it again in the fall when it would work against the annual bluegrass.

Here's a final note that is a groaner.  I went for a walk last night and two blocks from me someone had just redone his lawn and had it sodded.  I took a look at it.  The sod was absolutely full of annual bluegrass.  So....he has brought that terrible weed into that neighborhood.

Rick

Answer
I can't remember a thread as enjoyable as this one reading your comments about this and that, in such an informed fashion, with such clarity.  Your note about the neighbor and the Scotts is so true.  I could not have said it better myself.

And the neighbor with the Poa annua in the sod.  How do they do it?

And that Poa is one tough and steely Weed.  Those Seeds are a nightmare.  The growth habit is a nightmare.  Thank God it's an annual.  My Lawn was invaded this year.  I got lazy and skipped a few things, now I'm paying for it, and I am growing Bentgrass so I can see the Poa up close.  If Corn Gluten stops this I'm going to tell those Cornell folks myself.

Note by the way that a good chunk of the golf community is doing cutting edge work on chemical free greens.  They're trying to new equipment, new Grasses, lots of organic steps to tone down the chemicals.  Your Rossi information is very impressive.

The Corn Gluten won't be fertilizing anything quickly.  It breaks down very slowly.  If you are planning on overseeding, remember you can't do that with Corn Gluten on the ground for at least 2 months without interfering with germination -- at least, that's what the research says.  I haven't tested the timing myself; I'm just too afraid of throwing money out the window.

Homeowners, myself included, who use chemicals (I still have Malathion etc on the shelf, it's a pain in the neck to get rid of so I just keep it around, which is stupid), are rarely careful.  I remember that mentality.  Even as I know what it is today, if I had to open a bottle, I would probably not bother with gloves and I would be very casual about it.  It seems like we just can't imagine having something really dangerous so up close and personal.  Now if it was nuclear waste, I'd be worried.  I think.

Sorry for waiting so long, I am getting way behind on these other answers, trying to catch up.