QuestionQUESTION: i am trying to get rid of a trumpet vine. my landscaper wanted to use roundup but i have outdoor cats and did not feel safe using it, so i searched the internet. i found an article that said sugar could be used as a shrub killer but there was no other instructions. i have put sugar all over the area about five times but the shoots still sprout up. i believe they are getting weaker because they pull out with ease, unlike before, but i don't know if i should keep putting sugar down, is it eventually going to stop it from growing completely? any help would be greatly appreciated. i also know from the internet that this is a hard bush to get rid of. thank you for your time.
ANSWER: For starters, let's teach your landscaper something about Round-Up.
Researchers tested Glyphosate on Trumpet Vine -- Campsis radicans -- in a field in Virginia a few years ago. They posted their results online and you can read them in the article they prepared for a professional journal, Weed Technology, titled 'Trumpetcreeper (Campsis radicans) Control in Double-Crop Glyphosate-Resistant Soybean with Glyphosate and Conventional Herbicide Systems':
www.bioone.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1614%2FWT-03-050R1&ct=1&SESSID=4ae90aaca602655e29c920d8cb64f3f0
The abstract posted reports that when the researchers evaluated their results a year after using Round-Up and more traditional Weedkillers, 'Densities of trumpetcreeper that received conventional herbicide treatments ranged from 97 to 141% of the initial population, whereas densities of trumpetcreeper that received preemergence (PRE) followed by postemergence (POST) or POST-only applications of the isopropylamine (IPA) or diammonium (DIA) salts of glyphosate ranged from 30 to 66% of the initial population... PRE applications of the IPA or DIA salts of glyphosate generally provided lower levels of trumpetcreeper stem reduction...'
Translation: Weedkiller is not as good at killing Trumpet Vine as Round-Up. But Round-Up is not that good at killing Trumpet Vine, either. A year later, after multiple applications of Round-Up, as much as 2/3rds of the Trumpet Vine was back.
What they learned, basically, is that the usual Round-Up does not wipe out Trumpet Vine. I would hate to use Round-Up anyway, because it is such a destructive chemical. But you might consider a less lethal, more effective method that someone described to me recently to eradicate the Trumpet Vine at their house.
Remember first that I NEVER used Weedkillers or Pesticides in the garden unless they are part of an Earth friendly IPM program or an organic control.
Pour carefully a small amount of Round Up into a plastic cup, and insert the tips of a Trumpet Vine. Be careful not to splash the Round Up anywhere. As the Round Up is absorbed, you weaken the plant and hopefully, eventually, eradicate treated vines.
This is a noxious Weed in some states, so you are not alone, and you need help with this. Give me your zipcode and we can move on from there. Thanks for writing.
THE LONG ISLAND GARDENER
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QUESTION: Thank you for your time in answering. I live in zip code 11040. You did not address the sugar question at all. The shoots that have sprung up this time seem to be withering and maybe dying. I am about a week behind in my next application of the sugar. I had been cutting the shoots at ground level or pulling them out completely and then putting the sugar down. The fact that they are withering leads me to believe it may be working. I had never given them time to wither before. I plan on doing the sugar application at least one more time. Any thoughts on this? Thank you.
ANSWER: I apologize for missing the Sugar reference reply - totally overlooked it, intending to mention it toward the end. No great loss. Simply said, there is no truth, zero, nada, heetch, zippo to the rumor that sprinling with Sugar will kill Weeds.
Sucrose (Fructose plus Glucose) is a growing medium for Fungi. It would provide energy for insects, Bacteria and Fungi in the Soil. Molasses, a crude form of Sucrose, is included in some recipes for Compost Tea because it revs up growth of the microbes population -- the point of Compost Tea.
Nowhere will you find use of Sucrose as a lethal weapon. Not for plants, not for animals, not for nothin'. C12H22O11 is produced by plants. As Bacteria digest it, they produce Acids, which over time lowers pH.
But none of this will kill anything.
In high concentrations, Sugar acts much like Salt, creating high osmotic pressure outside roots and causing dehydration. This is why they both work so well as preservatives. And this -- although you need to use a LOT of Sugar -- may be what is destroying your Weed. It is not selective; it will not kill Weeds before Grass. There is no permanent damage caused by Sugar, and it won't cause Cancer or be at the root of weird side effects to anyone's health. It's water-soluble and will be quickly diluted and wash out if flushed.
If money is no object, you will have limited success with this method. But this is no minor nuisance; this is Campsis radicans, a formidable foe in the Garden. You will have more efficient eradication with the pH-driven weapon on your kitchen shelf, Vinegar.
Dirt Doctor Howard Garrett reports Trumpet Vine 'is horribly invasive and difficult to get rid of. The only solution short of a concrete wall in the ground is to remove the mother plant and spot spray the small shoots that return with the Vinegar herbicides.'
But even Vinegar has its limits. Roots of Campsis must be removed manually, and this is not easy to do. Researchers at Cornell University ran an experiment a few years back with a collection of Vinegar-based Weedkillers: Nature's Glory (25% Vinegar), BurnOut Weed and Grass Killer (25% Vinegar, plus few organic kickers), and supermarket Vinegar (20% and 5%) were charted. They compared the results against RoundUp. Cornell posted them on the internet:
counties.cce.cornell.edu/rensselaer/HORT/Acetic%20Acid%20as%20Herbicide.htm
You can also review the analysis of some of these Weedkillers at the North Carolina State University website:
www.ces.ncsu.edu/chatham/newsletters/growergram/2002/Aug2002.pdf
'Roundup herbicide worked better on the perennial Weeds and had better ratings at the end of the study. However, 3 applications of 20 percent Acetic Acid provided fairly similar levels of control.'
The cost of Weed Control was also studied in this same report. Spending to treat 1000 sq ft with 20 percent Vinegar spray: $40. Roundup: $12. This however does not include the costs of environmental damage or any health impacts.
Note that Cornell states right out, 'After 24 hours, control in all plots with an acetic acid product was 95 to 100 percent.' BUT...
they also point out that 9 weeks later, in plots that got only a single application, 'Control was significant only on Ground Ivy.' RoundUp was closer to 90 percent. 'Although all of the Acetic Acid treatments did a good job of initially controlling Quackgrass (which has a very aggressive root system), it re-grew by the 9 week observation date for many treatments. By 13 weeks, the percentage of Quackgrass for many treatments actually increased beyond what was initially seen in the plots!'
Cornell's own conlusion: 'Three applications of acetic acid were seen to be much more effective than one application in most cases. Pesticide applicators and gardeners following the advice of various gardening media who suggest vinegar as an herbicide should be aware that repeated applications may be necessary. The highest concentration of Acetic Acid (20 percent) and the commercial formulations provided some good control, but were not as effective as Glyphosate.'
Cornell ran another study in 2005. Yucca extract-spiked Acetic Acid concentrations of 15 to 30 percent were applied to seedlings of Chenopodium album (Common Lambsquarters), Abutilon theophrasti Medic. (Velvetleaf), and Amaranthus powellii S. (Powell Amaranth). They tried these at a rate of 34 and 68 gallons per acre. Velvetleaf was the most stubborn of the Weeds. The 15 percent solution was virtually useless on everything but the newest sprouts, but 15 percent Vinegar applied at 68 GPA had the same effect as 30 percent Vinegar at 34 GPA. Best control was applied at 68 GPA, 30 percent Vinegar.
Other tests pointed out that results were heightened when the Vinegar was heated first. There are some lovely photos taken of a test of Acetic Acid sprayed on Canadian Thistle and Dandelions at www.organicagcentre.ca ?Dandelions survived, the Thistle did not.
One product with a high concentration of Vinegar: WeedPharm. It is made by Pharm Solutions Inc:
pharmsolutions.com/index.html
Another contact weed killer found in apples and grapes, Pelargonic Acid, kills broadleaf Weed foliage almost instantly. That includes Dandelions, Canadian Thistle, and Pigweed. Companies like Bioscape:
bioscape.com
and Mycogen (Scythe Weed and Grass Killer) sell strong herbicides based on Pelargonic Acid.
Weedkillers work on contact, burning green weed foliage rapidly. But they don't kill roots. On an Annual Weed, or a Weed without a tap oot, that's not a problem. But with Dandelions, underground bulbs and wildflowers growing from tubers, it is often just a matter of time before the plant recovers and is sending out long stemmed fluffy white seedheads to blow across the plain towards lawns everywhere. Yes, ONLY THE LEAVES are killed by Vinegar and Pelargonic Acid; anything underground is safe and protected. The same Dandelion must be sprayed at least 3 times before you see a difference. Remember, too, that contact Weed killers can damage Grass, flowers and vegetables.
One researcher found that spraying once a week for 3 weeks was the answer for tough Weeds with thick roots. For some people, hand digging with a Dandelion Fork may be easier, so long as you get the whole root.
Your Trumpetvine is tough stuff. If you want to wipe it out without RoundUp, dig it out by the roots, and spray it to death with one of the super-concentrated Vinegar WMDs. I hate RoundUp, and I have never recommended it before this question, because it is just plain awful. But it will work. That said, ruthless use of Vinegar and a shovel will also work, but nicely.
THE LONG ISLAND GARDENER
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QUESTION: thank you again for your time in answering. this time before i put the sugar down i dug at some of the roots. i kind of started by accident and then it just took off from there!!!! boy, those roots get everywhere!!!! it may just be my imagination, but i think the roots were definitely weaker. in the past when i tried to pull the roots, it was like pulling concrete, almost impossible. this time, not so much. some still were almost impossible, but some seemed to come out with ease, so something is happening. i was told that what the sugar does is change the composition of the soil so that the plant is not "happy" growing there any more. maybe this is happening. you are right about the cost though, it got quite expensive, but in regards to my outdoor animals (those i own and those i don't) and the environment at large, i feel better about doing it this way. if the shoots keep coming and not dying off, i will try a vinegar application next. thank you again for all of your information.
AnswerThanks for your update. It's very heartening to know there are still people out there who keep their focus and are willing to break a sweat in the war against a noxious Weed.
I just have to add that the high cost of Sugar makes it worth giving a bottle of Vinegar a shot. If you spray it on the roots, and then re-spray in a few days, and re-spray again, maybe Trumpetvine will finally bite the dust. Trumpetvine is a professional Weed, an Oscar-winning villain, practically a garden terrorist. Good luck and please do keep me posted.
THE LONG ISLAND GARDENER
