Question
QUESTION: I am having a DEVIL of a time trying to identify this tree type!  I have looked in several field ID guides, looked at online id guides and pictures, and I'm STILL not sure!  

Pictures of tree trunks (mostly at breast height) and leaves at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/melissambwilkins/sets/72157600858534342/

Location of the tree stand: 36 degrees, 28 minutes, 55 seconds North, 80 degrees, 30 minutes, 48 seconds West - 306 Cook School Road, Pilot Mountain, NC 27041 - Altitude approx. 1500 feet. In the area known as the "Chestnut Ridges" (though the Chestnuts are all gone, of course). West-facing steep, rocky slope with low magnesium soil content.

Description of tree stand: Mixed growth.  Mostly the unidentified tree (Chestnut/Swamp Chestnut Oak) along with some pine, sassafras, tulip poplar, mountain laurel, etc.  The growth is on a fairly steep, rocky slope with hard clay soil on the western-facing side of a ridge that makes up part of the "Chestnut Ridges" of that area.  The area has been logged at least once in the past 75 years, and few oaks are over 100cm in circumference.  Apart from laurel and small seedlings of new trees attempting to gain foothold, the undergrowth is sparse -- little poison ivy, briars, or other plants apart from mosses and lichens -- there aren't even any ferns at this particular location.

Description of bark: Older trees have bark that has formed into long furrows, though not the deep "V" furrows and "A" shaped ridges I've seen in some pictures.  The overall bark appearance is a light grey, and forms scaly plates along flat-topped ridges between the furrows.  On some of the older trees, the bark appears darker in color, but this may be due to other things growing on the bark.  Many of the trees have lichen on the bark, as well.  

Description of leaves:  On one older specimen near the road, I found some leaves on a more mature branch that have full-sun exposure from the time the sun crests the ridge (around 9am in the summer) until at least mid-day.  These leaves are almost elliptical with sinuate/undulate margins, and average 27cm long by 10 cm wide.  Most easily-accessible leaves are located in shadier conditions are are obovate, with the widest point past the middle (towards the tip).  The leaves most in the shade (all of the lower branches) are often around 30cm in length and 15cm wide, with more undulate margins.  All leaves, despite size, seem to have between 10 and 14 parallel, straight veins that end in rounded shallow lobes.  There are no spines on the leaves to be seen, even on young leaves.  The underside of the leaves is a pale green, and has the feeling of velvet or velour to them, though the hairs are so tiny that they need very good eyes and light and/or magnification to be seen.  The coating of fine hairs seems even, and no longer hairs have been noted along main veins.  

What has confused me is that many id sources say that the underside of the leaves of Quercus prinus are sparsely haired, and that there are longer hairs along the main veins, and I just don't see this.  I've also seen descriptions of the leaf bellies as more grey in color, and these are light green.  The leaves also seem too big by most accounts.  I thought maybe I had Quercus michauxii in a strange location, but that doesn't quite fit, either.

Any help you can give would be most apprecitated!

ANSWER: It looks like chinkapin oak, Quercus muehlenbergii. Sometimes called yellow chestnut oak, rock oak, or yellow oak
Here is a web link to pictures.
http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/species/qumu.htm

Here is another site that describes the tree.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=244

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QUESTION: Ahhh... I considered that, but all of the examples and descriptions I've seen have each of the veins ending in a POINTED lobe, not rounded, like mine are.  Also, the bark isn't nearly as "flaky" as in the pictures of the links you gave.  Any other ideas?  (See... I told you it was tricky)
ANSWER: The four species of the chestnut oak group in eastern North America ( Quercus montana , Q . michauxii , Q . muhlenbergii , and Q . prinoides ) are somewhat difficult to distinguish unless careful attention is paid to features of leaf vestiture and fruit and cup morphology. Attempts to identify these species mostly or solely on basis of leaf shape and dentition (as in many other oak species complexes) have resulted in a plethora of misidentified material in herbaria and erroneous reports in the literature. The closely appressed, asymmetric trichomes on the abaxial surface of the mature leaf, in combination with longer simple hairs along the midvein, are unique to Q . montana among North American species of Quercus . Immature leaves and densely shaded leaves sometimes exhibit a more erect trichome that could be confused with the longer, felty hairs of Q . michauxii , so it is important to evaluate mature sun leaves when possible.
It maybe montana based on the discription of the leaves--here is what one web site said and a web link to information on montana.


The four species of the chestnut oak group in eastern North America ( Quercus montana , Q . michauxii , Q . muhlenbergii , and Q . prinoides ) are somewhat difficult to distinguish unless careful attention is paid to features of leaf vestiture and fruit and cup morphology. Attempts to identify these species mostly or solely on basis of leaf shape and dentition (as in many other oak species complexes) have resulted in a plethora of misidentified material in herbaria and erroneous reports in the literature. The closely appressed, asymmetric trichomes on the abaxial surface of the mature leaf, in combination with longer simple hairs along the midvein, are unique to Q . montana among North American species of Quercus . Immature leaves and densely shaded leaves sometimes exhibit a more erect trichome that could be confused with the longer, felty hairs of Q . michauxii , so it is important to evaluate mature sun leaves when possible.

http://www.ibiblio.org/openkey/intkey/web/QUPR2.htm

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233501064

Of course since these are so closely related the tree could be a cross between a couple of them.





---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I recognized both of those links from pages I had already visited, and I found the same cautions about the Identification problems, as well.  Unfortunately, it's too early for acorns, so I just may have to wait until Fall for a more positive ID (and maybe before then I can take one of those handy courses in tree climbing with rock climbing equipment that arboritsts use).  Thanks for trying!

Answer
You might give the folks at foresrty.about a chance to dive into this question. The guide has a forum that has a couple of Foresters from Virginia area on it and they should be able to help. Steve Nix is the guide and the web link is http://forestry.about.com/
You can tell him I sent you and you have "stumped" me
Bugman